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Feb 18

Boss with a giant challenge

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AFL chief Andrew Demetriou opens up about the footy now and in the future. Pictures: Chris Scott Source: Herald Sun

GLENN McFarlane and Shane Crawford have an in-depth chat with AFL chief Andrew Demetriou - and nothing is off limits.

MONEY TALK

GLENN McFARLANE: Your income went down (in the AFL report released on Friday) How does that happen, given the AFL has record attendances, signed a big broadcasting rights deal and finally settled on a new collective bargaining agreement?

ANDREW DEMETRIOU: As the chairman announced, part of the ($2.2 million) last one was a base salary, a bonus component and a long-term incentive retention bonus component. So last year was basically a base and a bonus, and it meant that it was less than the year before.

SHANE CRAWFORD: How are you going to cope?

AD: Probably get some more good publicity.

FAMILY TIES

SC: You have four kids; I have four kids. You have twins; I have twins.

AD: You and I have a lot in common. Both former champions of the game (laughs).

SC: What advice can you give me about being a good father while still leading a busy life?

AD: Busy people get things done. It is probably one of the greatest times of your life. We had twins first then we had the other two. You had twins the other end, so that will be an interesting thing. Any support you can provide your wife is priceless because people underestimate how much work is involved with four children on a daily basis.

SC: Do you change the nappies and all that?

AD: Still do with the two-year-old.

SC: For this interview can you say that you don't, so when my partner reads it, she won't ask me to do more.

GM: Do you have rituals such as being home at a certain time?

AD: Every night I do. We just had a month and a bit off down at our holiday house, and we spent every minute with the children. We love watching them grow. It has been an amazing thing to see our four-year-old about to turn five go off to prep this year. It was an emotional day for my wife and I. Someone once said to me that they grow up quickly, and I thought that is a strange thing. But it is absolutely true.

GIANTS CHALLENGE

SC: GWS is about to start.

AD: That's another baby ...

SC: You must be very excited to see them in?

AD: It is from an historical perspective. You couldn't help but admire how the Gold Coast went about it last year. People admired how the club was run; the young kids; the Gary Ablett factor; Metricon Stadium. With GWS coming in, people know it is going to be a massive challenge. They know it is different to the Gold Coast, but I think people respect the fact that Sheeds has gone up there and is giving it a crack, that Mark Williams is there. Sheeds has the most to lose; he has done it all.

For him to uproot his family and go up to western Sydney and be an ambassador for the game and publicise it with great passion, for him to get fit, lose weight, and re-educate himself to coach is a great credit to him. Our guys have put in a lot of work over a number of years to help the club to get to where it has got - it is now on its own two feet, and it is going particularly well off the field. It is going to get belted and smashed on the field at times, which we all kind of expect, but the atmosphere and the club culture that has been created is fantastic. But we are not delusional. We know it is a massive haul.

SC: Can they win a game this year?

AD: They might. I think it is going to be hard for them to win a game. I didn't expect the Gold Coast to win many games last year (they won three), but I think everybody knows that in three years' time they are going to be winning some games. I can write the script now, they will be losing games, some by big margins, (people will say) `this is a disaster for the AFL'. My counsel to everyone is to be patient. This is a 20 to 30-year generational strategic move and you will not see the benefits of this football club's efforts for a long time.

GM: You must have been concerned about a few off-field issues at GWS - the departure of a CEO; the Tom Scully saga with his dad?

AD: They are not concerns. As Shane would know, things happen at football clubs and they happen often when you least expect them. But there are capable people at the football club. The board, chaired by Tony Shepherd, is a good board. The coaching and support staff is very capable, with Sheeds, Mark and Alan McConnell.

You have Graeme Allan, who is a very experienced general manager of footy. We have Dave Matthews up there as the CEO, who I have got a lot of time for because he worked here for many years. We have the right people in place. I haven't seen any panic within the club. They are going to have a lot more hiccups along the way. Make no mistake.

GM: Do you regret saying the decision to employ Tom Scully's dad in the recruiting department was a "stroke of genius''?

AD: Not really. I maintain that people might not approve of what happened, and they are entitled to have that view. But what they did was they saw an opportunity to exploit the rules, and they did it legitimately. They have put it in the salary cap.

People are entitled not to like that. I respect that. But it was all above board. His money is in the salary cap, it is not being hidden anywhere. I hope it works for all concerned. Tom Scully is a person is a fine young man, and he has great football ability. I hope he can play football and not be distracted. And I hope his father proves to be a good recruiter.

GM: No team since Fitzroy in 1964 has failed to win a game in a season. You were three back then, Andrew. How embarrassing would that be for the GWS brand?

AD: Look, it is highly likely that they win a game. But my expectations are that they will - with a number of young guys - be on a learning curve.

GM: Is that it for expansion for a long time?

AD: You never say never. It won't be my decision. Someone else might decide that they will down the track. We have said that 18 teams seems to be the right number. I have said before that with the growing population and economic booms in various states, you can see one day, for us, that it is a fertile ground in Queensland. Why wouldn't you look at it? There could be a team in Tasmania, then there's the north-west of Western Australia, who knows?

THE DEBT DRAIN

SC: Which team worries you the most financially?

AD: Port Adelaide does. They are making a real effort. I think the CEO, Keith Thomas, is very capable, and they have added value to their board. But they have got two really difficult years ahead because that's when they go to the Adelaide Oval. We expect to see an upgrade to their earning capacity. They will get some increases in revenues and we think membership. People know AAMI Stadium is on the way out. But Port Adelaide is the club that we have spent a lot of time trying to help over the past couple of years, along with the SANFL.

GM: Does the debt of a number of the clubs really concern you?

AD: Yes. The total debt of the clubs in the competition today is the highest it has ever been.

GM: What's that figure? Is it a major concern.

AD: It is a concern. The debt is the highest it has been combined. Some clubs can afford to carry debt. Geelong, for example, has taken out a debt for its grandstand, but it has the capabilities of paying it back. But there are some clubs carrying debt that they are not making inroads into. Part of what we did last year with our five-year distribution plan is that every club that is getting additional funds has got a debt reduction plan. You have seen clubs do remarkably well in tackling their debt. Melbourne, under Jim Stynes and the board, removed $5 million of debt. Incredible.

Hawthorn have done a great job from a number of years ago. It can be done. But there are some clubs, including North Melbourne and Richmond, who are trying to make inroads. They have debt demolitions which I congratulate them on. St Kilda has got some debt now. Our preference is to have less debt in the competition and less debt here.

GM: Will you police that more stringently and act against boards or CEOs who don't do the right thing?

AD: We have worked with the clubs and we have listened to them and what they need in so far as their personnel, whether it is football departments or admin. Their plan is what we have listened to. To give them funding, which all the clubs have signed up to, particularly to get all the clubs to agree that one club is going to get $10 million and one is going to get $5 million, that is not an easy thing.

The clubs have all bought dis-equalised distribution. But they expect policing; they expect conditions, and they expect more rigid adherence to the plan. We have given them an undertaking that is what we will do. We have flagged this is a year of consolidation. We have brought in two new clubs; we have a CBA; we have re-signed our sponsors; we have done all the big deals. We are going to look after the existing clubs and get some control over debt. We have helped set up a club services division to offer people to go into clubs to help them out.

LIVE FOOTY

SC: Congratulations, Andrew, we have finally got live footy. Are you worried it might affect attendances?

AD: No. We saw live tennis recently have record crowds, and turning away people. People want to watch sport today live. The great thing about sport and sports broadcasting, and the reason the rights bring what they are worth, is that sport delivers the unpredictable. It is the unknown. It is the comeback. It is the uncertainty.

OPTUS

GM: Is that what makes the Optus case so frustrating for the AFL?

AD: The Optus situation is a really serious thing. It has serious implications for sport, not just the AFL. We have already done our deal.

GM: What about future deals?

AD: It has the potential to significantly hurt further revenues which we rely on to plough back into our sport. I am not just talking about our players or our clubs. I am talking about putting money into programs, community football, community facilities, and indigenous programs. So the thought of Optus deciding to lift our content and not pay for it, and pretend and purport to be doing it for the consumer, is a complete disgrace.

They should be ashamed of themselves because what they are really doing is charging for a start, so they can benefit to their shareholders, not the consumers. They are not paying for it, they are lifting it. It is akin to stealing. And all it will do, is that if sports can't rely on that revenue, they will slug the consumers. Optus should take a good look at themselves. If you are an Optus subscriber, switch to Telstra, do everyone a favour, get out of that company. Stop subscribing to them, it is a disgrace. I'm not the only sport saying that.

GM: Last week you and other sporting codes went to Canberra to talk to the Federal Government about a possible legislative amendment. How did that go?

AD: I said to the Federal Government and the Opposition, it is very unusual for every major professional sport in this country to be aligned to an issue. This is bad news for sports who are about to do their rights. It creates uncertainty. How can you do a rights deal with uncertainty.

GM: Did you get a good hearing?

AD: We were pleased that three Federal Government ministers made themselves available on the first day back of Parliament sitting. The Prime Minister popped in. We got to see the Opposition. We got bipartisan support. They gave us a lot of comfort that they understood the issue. I think they are looking for a way for legislation to catch up with technology. Technology has got ahead of the legislation. It would be far more preferable if Optus just dropped this shenanigans and got into the real commercial world and starting just paying for things.

FREE AGENCY

GM: Clearly some fans are fearful of what free agency will bring. Is that something that they will have to get used to?

AD: We are pleased with the arrangement that we made with the players on free agency. It is not everything we wanted, and it is not everything they wanted. We found the right compromise, but it is the right thing for the competition, to allow players more movement. It allows clubs to try and retain their players if they want.

And we were one of the only sports, after doing all the research, that didn't have free agency, that had a draft, I am confident that Adrian Anderson and (AFLPA boss) Matt Finnis got the balance right. I think the clubs have embraced it, and understand it. There has been a long lead in time so they could plan for it. I would say to all supporters, the competition will be better for having free agency in it.

GM: Are we going to see more players moving?

AD: I honestly don't know. One of the things that should give people comfort is that as long as we have got a salary cap, this proposition that all the great players are going to go to one club is just not right.

GM: There is a fear poor clubs will be pillaged?

AD: I can't see that happening with the salary cap. It just can't.

PLAYER RELATIONS

SC: What about your relationship with the players? Is everything all right there now?

AD: Yes, we have a dinner next week to celebrate the CBA which has been organised. I think the relationship is very good. We had the signing just before Christmas. Look, any negotiation is a hard fought negotiation. And when the ink is dry, you put those things behind you and move on to work collaboratively. I think it is a fair collective bargaining agreement. it has the right balance between the clubs' needs and the players' needs.

Some will argue it is too generous; some will argue it is not enough. We are dedicated and committed to looking after our players, not just in their playing lifetime but the retirement fund and welfare component has been substantially improved. This is a great career choice if you are a talented athlete out there.

GM: Do you think there is still some residual damage to your relationship with the individual players?

AD: Things get said along the way. I think the people at the AFLPA are very decent people, and I haven't heard from (former AFLPA media advisor) Ben Hart (laughs).

GM: What about your relationship with Matt Finnis? Was it damaged?

AD: My relationship with Matt is very good. The players should be very pleased and proud of the way Matt represented them. He represented them faithfully and honestly and took up the issues that the players wanted. He should be congratulated for that.

GM: Was your wage an issue with the players?

AD: I don't know, Glenn, you would have to ask them that. I had questions from players when I went around, and I tried to answer them as honestly as I could. No player ever said to me that was ever a significant issue.

MEAT LOAF

SC: Have you listened to Bat Out Of Hell since Meat Loaf slaughtered it at the Grand Final?

AD: I have watched on YouTube the Grand Final performance and I wish I hadn't really.

GM: Can you tell us your first thought that went through your mind after you saw it again?

AD: Madonna.

SC: Please get Madonna.

AD: It has always been an easy throwaway line, when people say you are better off not having anything. It is part of the day, part of our brand, and it is important to get it right. When we had Lionel Richie at the (2010) Grand Final replay people loved it, and I think with what we saw last year, people still talked about it. So on the biggest day of the year it is important that we get that right. We have some ideas this year.

We have got a workshop them and see if we can get them right. It doesn't mean we will spend big money, we are not that sort of sport. GM: If you had a blank canvas, or blank cheque, who would you go after?

AD: Gee, if I could get Nicki Minaj, Usher, Lady Gaga, Kanye West, Rihanna and Bruce Springsteen ... all rolled in together

GAMBLING

SC: You've made a crackdown on gambling a real focus in the last few years? Will that continue?.

AD: For us, one of our key challenges, and one of the things we are focused on, is maintaining the integrity of the game, and maintaining the integrity of the players. That is about our drug code - the ASADA drug code and the illicit drug code. It is about salary cap compliance, and it is about gambling, protecting the code from people who want infiltrate it to get information. We have got a sophisticated work force in that area, and we have put funding into sophisticated means of tracking surveillance and so forth. We have arrangements with all the better agencies. And you have seen last year if there is anyone out there gambling (on football), they will be found. We hope people have learnt the lessons from last year, there have been some silly errors of judgment made.

But if your sport gets infiltrated by corruption or has a challenge of integrity, whether it is doping or whatever it might be, people lose faith in it. They want to see a pure contest, and if they question the contest, that's not good. Did he really drop that catch? How come they lost six wickets for 10. Or he won this particular cycle race, was he clean? We don't want questions like that in our game.

GM: Are you certain there are people out there trying to infiltrate the code?

AD: Of course.

GM: Will you spend even more money this year in trying to stop that happening?

AD: We are. We have got Abraham Haddad, who heads up the unit. He is an ex-United Nations person. I get frightened when I walk past his office. We have supported Adrian Anderson's recommendations to invest heavily in integrity. We make no apologies for the fact that we have arrangements with betting agencies, a): to access information and b): importantly the revenues and commissions that we derive, we plough back into our integrity.

PRESSURE ON THE PLAYERS

GM: How much pressure and scrutiny is on the players these days?

AD: As a general comment, if you are a young person in the public eye - it doesn't matter which sport you play - then the scrutiny is incredible because of the new media age. It is now designed that everything is quickly transmitted. Our guys are now getting stories off Twitter now.

That sort of scrutiny is different to when Shane played, and certainly different to when I played. We are dealing with different issues - players who might say something silly on Facebook and they have to retract it, or someone impersonating someone on a Twitter account. There are all sorts of issues, including cyber bullying. I think all of us, as a general comment, have to educate and get education on how we deal with this instantaneous new media, and new technology.

Some clubs are now starting to put into place systems where their players get education for this new technology, but it is changing so quickly that we need to be ahead of it. I do sympathise with some of the lads who get into strife. We saw with Majak Daw some of that stuff being sent around. Some of it was not accurate and some had partial accuracy. It can cause a lot of distress. And that can be dangerous.

DEPRESSION

GM: Depression is largely a silent issue in society. If you listen to some people, it is a real problem in AFL football too?

AD: I think mental health is a serious issue in the community and you have seen awareness campaigns around it. I think what Jeff Kennett has done with Beyond Blue should be applauded. We saw Nathan Thompson when he came out about it; we have seen Wayne Schwass and you will more of an awareness around mental illness because it is a silent illness. I don't think it is just prevalent in football, it is prevalent in society. I agree with the Patrick McGorrys of the world that there has to be a lot more focus and a lot more funding around trying to help people with mental health issues.

SC: Speaking of Jeff, how has it been without him?

AD: I miss him. Jeff did a fantastic job at the Hawthorn Football Club. Financially they are a very strong football club, and what he did in Tasmania was fantastic. He genuinely loved Tasmania, and Launceston. And the club won a premiership under his reign. He picked the time of his choosing to leave and he didn't change that. He was a vocal voice at the presidents' meetings, and we welcome that. Eddie (McGuire) and others do the same. In my dealings with Jeff, it was always professional, sometimes hard fought, but I have got a lot of respect for him.

Gm: Jeff used to say that the AFL organisation was too big. It is getting better with the new AFL media. What's the rationale behind it?

AD: In our case, with AFL Media, there were things that we were already doing through AFL Publishing and our licencing. We had AFL Films brought back in house from David Barham. We were starting to produce the content for our website, which is very important for us.

We thought if we were going to do all that, why don't we do some production? We have set up an AFL Media department that has about 115 people in it. Of those, I think 30 or 40 are new appointments because the others were already existing. We see it as a really important tool for the AFL a) to protect the value of our rights going forward, and b); to make sure that we are producing the content for our website fairly and reputably.

GM: Not controlling the agenda?

AD: I believe in editorial freedom; I don't believe in censorship. It won't be vanilla sugar-coating any stories, it is just another avenue for people to get their information.

GM: Will this lead to AFL TV in the next broadcasting rights?

AD: Who knows?

PRIORITY PICKS

GM: Clubs have been asked to make submissions on the future of priority picks. What's your view?

AD: I can't give you my view because it is a matter before the Commission and I am on the Commission. All I can say is that as Adrian Anderson has forewarned, it is being reviewed. It is not being reviewed this year because of some sort of response to an outcry about priority picks. It is being reviewed in the timing that we always said it would be reviewed.

SC: With the draft, can you see a lottery amongst the bottom four as being an option in the future?

AD: We don't believe in that. We would hate to have a situation where a bottom team that has won one game or zero games - even for the draft, not talking about a priority pick - would not get a pick above a team that finished 14th but had won 10 games. Then, due to a ball pullout, they have got first pick. We would hate that situation to arise.

GOING ABROAD

GM: We have never played a home-and-away match for premiership points in the history of the game. Are we finally getting closer?

AD: I think it is inevitable. We have got great desire to play a game in China. I think it has got huge potential. I don't see why we shouldn't being viewing international expansion from the point of view of growing our audiences and growing our talent pool as something we shouldn't aspire to. I am optimistic about an international focus. As an objective, we would like to play a home-and-away game overseas in the next five-year cycle.

LET'S GO TO THE VIDEO

SC: Do you like the third umpire decisions in cricket and tennis?

AD: I like it in tennis, but I'm not sure about cricket. It is very quick in tennis. It is limited to challenges and has been an improvement in their game.

SC: What about in AFL footy, especially when it comes to goals.

AD: We are trialling it in the NAB Cup and Adrian (Anderson) has given an undertaking that you can't take more than 40 seconds. If it can be done in such a way with the help of the broadcaster, and they can do a quick turnaround, we will see what happens. We all like the continuity of the game and the flow. It doesn't happen that often in a game, so it should not be that big an issue.

THE FUTURE

GM: Throw forward 20 years if you can, what do you think the game will look like?

AD: Here's my serious response to that question. Go back 20 years, 1992, and look at the changes that have happened in that period. I defy anybody to say with hand on heart that they could have predicted what happened over the last 20 years. The first part of my answer is whatever we think it is going to look like; it will look different. I think it will look for the better.

You think about 1992, there is now a stadium with a roof, there is no Waverley, Port Adelaide and Fremantle have come into the competition, Port Adelaide has won a flag, Brisbane Lions won three in a row, we have GWS and Gold Coast, we have had Metricon Stadium built, Adelaide Oval will have footy back, we are playing in every state and territory. The salary cap is $9 million, In 1987 broadcasting rights were $1 million a year, so $5 million for five years. In that period we have seen them go from $450m to $780m and now $1.25 billion. Every game live on television.

Every game on a device, iPad, iPhone, T-box, Xbox, Foxtel, Channel 7. The mind boggles about what will happen in 20 years. What I can tell you unequivocally is that the viewing experience will be different because the stadia will be state of the art with new technologies. There will be new ways of going to the footy and new ways of watching it. You will be using a hand held devise to avoid traffic and to buy your seats and your food. Everything will be automated.

The viewing experience will be different, but my hope is that we have 18 strong, healthy football clubs, and that the game has gone to infinite levels. You think about the athletes of today and the science behind GPS. Imagine what it will be like then.

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